Recorded Cases

Annie Session 1 Wednesday October 6, 1982
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Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.
T: Sit over there on the couch. 1
P: I never expected it to look like this. 2
T: You did or you didn’t? 3
P: Didn’t. 4
T: Oh. 5
P: It’ beautiful. 6
T: It’s a nice office. 7
P: I….I’m nervous. 8
T: Yeah. I see you are but just take it easy and tell me a little about yourself. 9
P: Mmmm – well, I don’t know what *Kenny told you. 10
T: Very little. 11
P: Very little. Okay. I’m married. I’ve two children. I don’t work. I’m a housewife – but that’s 12 work. 13
T: Yes. I know it is. 14
P: Mmm – want to get right down to what the basic problem is? I mean, everything else is 15
okay except this one thing. Just, uh–you know, like when you’re supposed to go somewhere–an 16 enjoyment–like, uh, someone’s house or a party or a movie–just something like that–I have–to 17 me it’s an ordeal. I’d rather stay home and, uh, it’s like, uh–my husband doesn’t ask me to go 18 anywhere because it’s like he puts me through the wringer to get to go where I’m going, you 19 know. (laughs) And I’m just kinda tired of getting that upset, you know, just afraid to go and that 20 one little part of my life, I don’t want it anymore. I’m getting very depressed, you know, before it 21 used to happen and I was too involved with the happening and now I’m getting depressed about it 22
happening and I kinda envy people, uh, just going and having a good time. When I’m there, I want 23 to come back home, you know, it’s just (sighs) I don’t want it like that anymore. Everything else is 24 fine–working around the house or doing things with my husband or the children, that’s fine. I’m 25 very happy but Id like to go out and then come back and enjoy that more. I think going out and–if 26 I enjoyed going out, when I’d come back, that’d be even happier, you know what I mean? But, uh, 27 I am very nervous to go places. (laughs) 28
T: You are. 29
P: Very nervous or afraid to go places that’s…. 30
T: To go places. 31
P: Yeah. That’s the problem. (laughs) 32
T: Just to go to a party or something. How about going shopping? 33
P: Well, that depends. If I’ve been in the house like say–well, I do all the shopping mostly 34 myself – uh, like if wintertime comes and you’re not out that often, I get sort of stagnant about 35 going out. If my husband says, “Let’s go shopping,” I might get upset, you know, but pretty much, 36 going shopping isn’t too bad. The one time he took me out to dinner–it’s like a year or two years 37 ago and I was holding my own through the whole dinner but I wanted to go home–that was 38 enough–and he suggested going to A & P shopping–that did it, I was in the bathroom and the 39 whole dinner was up and I was a wreck. (laughs) You know, I was just–I’ve tried giving myself 40 the third degree when it happens. All I can hear myself–is, uh, “I don’t want to go. I don’t want to 41 go.” and I keep asking myself why, you know, and that’s–I don’t know why. 42
T: Have you any idea why? 43
P: No. Not really. I-I think of a lot of things that have happened in my life and my mother 44 and father’s attitude toward things and I say–well, I understand that but I shouldn’t be, you know–45 let that influence me about certain things, you know. 46
T: What about their attitudes? 47
P: Well, they don’t believe in friends. That’s (laughs) a bad thing right there, you know. 48 Friends are–growing up, that was kinda hard to adjust to and my father’s a very, uh–well, he’s 49 kinda miserable but he’s a very over cautious man–like when the children are playing or running–50 :4″Don’t do this–don’t–you’re gonna hurt yourself” type of a man, you know and that reflects, 51 you know. I’ve— 52
I can see that now growing up and, uh – that–I thought–well, maybe I got brainwashed, you 53 know, about, you know, when you go somewhere, you gotta be cautious or something terrible is 54 going to happen, you know. Just, uh–like I told *John, uh–he asked me the first time it happened 55 that I can remember and I told him fourth grade–like my mother was having fits at me, first, 56 second, third grade–every time I’d go to school or someplace, I’d end up throwing up in the 57 bathroom all the time and the first time I realized that I was afraid of something was in fourth 58 grade when like me and this other girl were supposed to go to a movie with a teacher and my 59 mother sent me off to go meet the teacher. Well, I never made it there. I walked around too scared 60 to go (laughs) and come back home. Well, she wouldn’t let me in the house, she was just fed up, 61 right? I mean, all these years of me constantly, you know, throwing up and not wanting to go 62 places. So… 63
T: When was this? 64
P: Fourth… 65
T: When you were just a little, uh… 66
P: Fourth grade. Yeah. 67
T: She was already-already fed up. 68
P: Yeah. She was already fed up. (laughs) To me, I didn’t realize I was afraid of anything and 69 when she locked me out, I walked around a little more and I thought–gee, why was I afraid. I was 70 afraid to go to the show with the teacher. There was nothing to be afraid of but I didn’t make it 71 because I was afraid to go there or something and that’s the first time I realized there was a fear 72 but then, uh, like I told*John–later on, like sixth to eighth grade and high school, occasionally 73 that would occur but not often and now, like the last six years of my marriage, you know, it’s-it’s 74 getting worse, you know–it’s really getting worse (tears in voice) Uh, *John says–well, maybe 75 it’s ’cause you’re getting close to your husband. You know, like you were very close to your 76 mother and now you’re getting close to your husband so you’re afraid–you know he thinks it’s 77 abandonment or something. I read so many books and self help things and I tell myself–you got 78 confidence–go–right? Doesn’t work. 79
T: What kind of books have you read? 80
P: Oh, I forget the names of them. It’s just things to build your confidence and, uh, just have 81 confidence in yourself type things, you know. 82
T: Mmm hmm. 83
P: Never finished them because they just didn’t hold my interest. You know it just wasn’t the 84 basic thing–but then I thought–well, maybe it’s recurring now because I have a daughter seven 85 years old. I thought maybe me seeing her growing up is reminding me of something when I was 86 little. I don’t know. I’ve given myself the third degree but I can’t–it’s like… 87
T: That’s an interesting thought. How old are your children? 88
P: Uh, I have a boy four–going on five in November–and a daughter, seven going on eight 89 and she’s in third grade now and the boy is just in kindergarten in the afternoon and I know when 90 I had to go to school, it was too much, you know. I just–I don’t know….That part–everything’s 91 fine except–he could say “Let’s go to the movies.” and I’m in the bathroom. I mean, I’ve got… 92
T: Sick to your stomach, you mean? 93
P: I’ve got–I have–I could be constipated and have instant diarrhea, you know, it’s just–94 between the vomiting and the diarrhea–that’s what’s going on in a sphere and I keep trying to 95 come out of it–come out of the bathroom and go where I’m supposed to go and I run back in, it’s 96 just a fear and I don’t–and when it’s happening, you know, I really say–what’s the problem. You 97 know, I really try to say–what are you afraid of?. I don’t know. I really don’t know. I’m like 98 hitting a block wall and then, uh – we had a block club party in August–if you know what those 99 are. All the houses sort of get together and we had a very nice one. We had a youth club came out 100 and drew up this big jumping jack and volleyball and everything and, uh, I was doing pretty good 101 in the morning but the afternoon, I was in the house. I couldn’t get back out. I was–I couldn’t–the 102 fear was there and I was all upset and it wasn’t until later in the evening, I was in control again 103 and went back out and, you know, it’s just–that-that’s when I got mostly depressed about the 104 situation. Other than that, I never got depressed about that thing happening. I was too busy with it 105 happening and then I realized, you know, like, uh–you know, (laughs) someone’s gotta help me. 106
T: Someone has to help you… 107
P: ‘Cause I can’t–I can’t figure it out, you know (laughs) 108
T: Did you ever ask for help before? 109
P: No. 110
T: How come? 111
P: I don’t–well, I never took it seriously. I just–see, it only happens when I’m going 112 somewhere and that’s–the rest of the time, it’s fine–right. (tears in voice again) And kind like 113
because our family thinks psychiatry is something not really, you know–they don’t believe in it, 114 that’s part of it, you know. 115
T: But you have relatives in psychiatry, don’t you? 116
P: My husband’s cousin–Dr. *Wister. 117
T: Yes. She’s your… 118
P: My husband’s cousin. 119
T: Your husband’s cousin. 120
P: Right. And *John is a friend and, uh–but they say friends and relatives shouldn’t get 121 involved, you know–you should have some, uh…. 122
T: But, in general, your family doesn’t believe in psychiatry? 123
P: Well, my mother–I don’t know if she’s changed–she’s changed a lot, uh-uh, she knows I’m 124 coming here today. I asked her a bunch of things of where I was when I was little and boy, we 125 really skipped around and, uh, she told me a few things today that–you know, I thought–holy 126 Christmas–everything, uh–see, I don’t.. 127
I don’t know what it is. If I knew–I don’t know. Uh… 128
T: What about your husband? How does he feel about it? Treatment? 129
P: Well, he knows what it’s like when I’m going through this, you know. He-he doesn’t ask 130 me to go anywhere, you know, or take me anywhere because he feels like he really upsets me too 131 much. He’d rather just avoid, you know doing it and that kinda hurts ’cause there are a lot of 132 times–gee, I want to go here. I want to do this but when it comes right down to it, it’s–it’s very 133 difficult to get there, you know. It’s, uh–I’ve got a tremendous fear and I just–the whole body just 134 goes up for grabs. You know, the mind–like, uh, I have tranquilizers *John gave me and, uh, to 135 go to this wedding when *Janey–Dr. *W–a family wedding, I took four–they’re 30 milligrams–I 136 started like in the morning every four hours (tears in voice) well, still by the wedding, I still 137 wasn’t relaxed and it wasn’t until after like the second highball that I started to just calm down 138 and, uh, I was godmother just two weeks ago for my niece–well, I started Saturday evening and I 139 even go up all during the night to take these pills every four hours and my insides were calm but 140 my head was still kinda, you know, like I was at the party afterwards and I still wanted to get 141 home and that’s–you’re not supposed to be that way, right? (laughs) 142
T: It’s not that you’re not supposed to be that way but it’s certainly pretty 143 miserable. 144
P: Yes. Yeah. That’s for sure. See, like, uh, there are things coming up, you know, like my 145 children will be–my daughter’s going to be performing and if I can’t even go to the ceremony, you 146 know (tears in voice) that can hurt them and I don’t want to do that. All last year, I didn’t go once 147 to the assemblies for my daughter and, you know (tears closer) it’s kinda rough. 148
P: They go to public school this year–we can’t really afford to send them to a private school, 149 but-I hope next year we can,. I don’t know if that’s good or bad or what but…..that’s what we’d like 150 to do, you know. But they have assembly once a month where they go on stage and they sing and 151 you know, I’m too nervous to even go to that, (crying) and that’s, you know–when *John called 152 last week or so and said, you know, I got you a doctor (laughs) to me, all the places I had to go 153 was over with and I had these pills I depended upon–there’s nothing happening until 154 Thanksgiving so I had like two months I was gonna relax and—right? And then I gotta come here 155 today (laughs) … 156
T: I see. You feel you might have been better off not coming…. 157
P: No. I-I–it’s gotta be solved. I-I can’t go through the rest of my life like this. It just… 158
T: But it scared you a lot to have to come here. 159
P: Uh, it really got to me. 160
T: Did you know what you were scared of? 161
P: Uh, no. Just meeting you mostly and seeing if we would hit it off, you know, (laughs) and 162 if you could really–and then sort of in my mind like–well, maybe he can really help me–maybe 163 you’re gonna be on the road to recovery or something like that, you know–at least to find out your 164 problem and then you’d be a happy person, you know, to go out, you know. 165
T: Your relationship with your husband otherwise, is okay? 166
P: Oh, yeah. We’re very happy We’re hard workers. (laughs) 167
T: What does he do? 168
P: He’s a salesman for a construction firm. We’re in a dilemma right now. He’s changing jobs 169 and, uh–when he was gonna change jobs, he was gonna get more at the second job and he told the 170 first job he was quitting and now they came with a raise in pay and now he’s caught in the middle, 171 so he’s in his own traumatic decisions right now too. I’m not telling him one way or the other–we 172
talked about it but I’m not making his dec-decisions for him so, uh-he’s going through his ordeal 173 and I’m going through mine today. He’s supposed to call the second employer and tell him about 174 the first employer giving him a-a better raise in pay, you know–after four years, he should have 175 got it before but ( sighs)…. 176
T: Are you having any more children? 177
P: No 178
T: What do you do about not having anymore babies? 179
P: Well…..I take the birth control pill. (laughs) 180
T: I see. 181
P: I, uh–that part of it, uh–I don’t know–*Janey and *Nick came from a family of seven–182 *Janey’s the oldest. 183
T: *Nick is, uh… 184
P: The second oldest. 185
T: Your husband. 186
P: Yeah. 187
T: His name is *Nick?. 188
P: *Nick. *N – i – c – k. 189
T: I see. 190
P: And *Janey is the oldest and *Nick is the second and my mother had three and I don’t 191 know–I just want two–like one of each. I’ve seen things where when the first ones are growing 192 up, everything is so strict and by the time the other ones come up, they’ve mellowed and it’s not 193 evened out. Me, I want like to try to keep them equal and if I’m strict, the both of them are gonna 194 get it, you know (laughs) Try–you know, just–’cause in my family I was the oldest and they 195 were very strict and my brothers–what they’re doing now–at my age, you know, I would have 196 gotten killed, you know. It’s really–you know, they don’t keep the–they mellow and they change 197 attitudes and they get a little looser, you know–I guess through understanding….. 198
T: Do you enjoy sex? 199
P: Oh, yeah. (laughs) 200
T: Do you come? 201
P: Oh, yeah. (laughs) Really. Yes. He helps. It’s-it’s–now I guess our marriage is… 202
T: What do you mean he helps? 203
P: Well, he helps, you know. He just–he doesn’t just lay there and do nothing, you know, 204 he’s involved too, you know. We’re both involved in that–it just doesn’t happen automatically. 205 You both have to get involved, you know. Care–it’s sort of a caring for each other and, uh – I 206 forgot what I was going to say. That there’s no problem in that category. 207
T: Mmm hmm. 208
P: None whatsoever. It’s just that, you know, we’re getting older and tireder and there are 209 times when by 10:30 we’re both sound asleep but you know, the next morning–during the day, 210 you think about it but by the time the evening comes and you’re tired, it, uh–you know, you’re 211 tired (laughs) and nothing happens but then it’s sort of like, uh–when it does happen, it’s better if 212 it hasn’t happened in a longer period of time–like say, two weeks, or a week and a half, you 213 know–then it’s even better, you know. When you do it more often sometimes it’s losing it’s, uh–214 it’s excitement or something like that. 215
T: Mmm hmm. 216
P: Uh, it–we work on it, you know. I’ll meet him once and a while for lunch and he’s a 217 salesman so he can come and go when he pleases and we’ll have a good dinner and a few drinks 218 and we’ll come back home and, you know, the kids are in school and, you know, then after two 219 thirty, he might leave back for work, you know–we’re still getting it in even during the day when 220 we’re not tired by the evenings. 221
T: I see. 222
P: There’s no problem with that at all. Not that I know of. 223
T: The kids–there’s nothing special about them. 224
P: No. They’re very active. (laughs) 225
T: They have no fears. 226
P: Not that I know of. I – not that I know of. Uh, our youngest is very open. 227
I mean – it’s–he’s been getting out of hand, so we’ve been kind of trying to talk to him and tell 228 him–and tell him, you just don’t do things like, uh–last Thursday–he was talking–he’s only in 229
kindergarten–he’s talking about bringing his friend, *Lou home–told *Lou his address–he’s got a 230 black and white garage and everything and that he wants him to come over and play. So that 231 whole afternoon, he says–“*Lou didn’t come–*Lou didn’t come.” and I says, “Well, you guys are 232 too little.” you know, “You just don’t do this without mother’s consent, you have to know where 233 you are and you have to get his mother’s consent and his mother and I don’t even know each other 234 because you two do in school doesn’t mean, you know, that we know each other.” Friday, he 235 brought him home (laughs) and we live across a busy street–the policeman crossed the children –236 *Maple–and, uh, after giving the boy the third degree trying to understand the last name–he 237 didn’t know his address–he didn’t know his phone number–we got in the car and we took him 238 back to school and–“Now which way do you go home from here?” you know. The mother’s 239 sitting on the front porch, frantic, you know. Uh, really wondering where he’s been, you know, so 240 – like that kind of, you know–trying to make a four year old understand you don’t do some things, 241 you know. But, uh, other that-that–that’s normal, I think (laughs) 242
T: Sounds normal to me. (laughs) Did *Kenny tell you anything about 243 treatment? 244
P: He said some–he said three or four times a week and, uh-uh, he said that way it could 245 probably be solved quicker, you know, than say once a week for a year or something like that. 246 Uh, that’s mostly just what he told me. 247
T: You don’t know anything about different types of treatment like 248 psychotherapy or psychoanalysis or…. 249
P: No. Never got into that. 250
T: What’s the money situation? 251
P: Well, we’re not rich. (laughs) We’re not poor. Uh-uh should I say he’s making $20,000 a year , 252 which isn’t… 253
T: He’s making $20,000? 254
P: Yeah. Which–having a house and two children, you know, where it’s going. It’s–we’re 255 living from paycheck to paycheck and every once and a while we’ll buy a little something special, 256 you know, like we just ordered a vanity for the bathroom we remodeled and, uh–well, anyway 257 you look at it–even one of the jobs he’s gonna end up with, he’s gonna be getting a little bit more 258 so–but we haven’t felt that yet and, uh–but by October, something should be settled about that 259 and there should be an increase in, uh-uh, financial….. 260
T: What kind of insurance have you got? 261
P: I don’t have anything that covers psychiatry. 262
T: You looked at that, huh? 263
P: Yeah. *Kenny mentioned that and I says I know we didn’t. We have insurance but it’s 264 mostly for medical – maybe I should check into it–I don’t think it covers psychiatry. I have the 265 brochure at home. Then if he changes jobs, I don’t know what that’ll cover either. I have the forms 266 at home I could pull it out, but I doubt seriously whether they cover that aspect of it. 267
T: There are some that cover outpatient psychotherapy. You might 268 look into it. 269
P: I will. I’ll pull the form out tonight and check it, uh–they’ve got everything listed–broken 270 legs, babies, tonsillitis–they’ve got it all listed so that would be listed too then so much…. 271
T: Mmm hmm. 272
P: I just took it for granted that it didn’t but I can check it. 273
T: Yeah. Four times a week seems like an awful lot to you, huh? 274
P: Yeah. I never thought–I was thinking once a week but four times, I never thought, uh–but 275 see, like–now, it’s like desperation, you know, like I don’t know which way to turn. I don’t know 276 how to solve it, you know. I was depending on these pills just when–I would know in advance 277 when something would be happening. I just–and like, uh, we went to pick up *Janey at the 278 airport–she was coming in to visit–and I took two that evening to get there–just to go to the 279 airport. I mean, nothing special–just to get there. Well, the second one must have really hit me 280 ’cause we went–we stopped by another sister’s house–*Tara–uh… 281
T: You’re one of how many, did you say? 282
P: *Nick and *Janey are one of seven. 283
T: They’re seven. 284
P: Right. 285
T: And you’re one of three. 286
P: Three. The oldest of three. And, uh–well, we stopped there–I guess it was already 10:30, 287 11:00 and we had cake and soda–well, I don’t remember coming home. Those pills must have 288 really hit me ’cause I was very calm, very relaxed but like for other things, like for going to that 289
wedding and I was still, you know, just–inside–and for being Godmother, I must have taken six 290 starting Saturday, you know, to get to Sunday and, you know, they’re supposed to be strong and 291 it’s–you know, if they’re not calming me down, something’s really bothering me. 292
T: Could you make it four times a week? 293
P: Anything. I just gotta get this over with. It’s–It’s the only thing that’s really bad in my life, 294 you know. Like my husband wants to go to a dinner-dance with other employees, you know–and 295 it’s hard for me, you know, to… 296
T: Mmm hmm. See the time I might available would be like eleven o’clock in 297 the morning – four days a week. I wondered if you could work that out. 298
P: Well, my mother works–she doesn’t leave until 2:30, quarter to three. And if I asked her, I 299 think she’d come over and get the children off to school at lunchtime or maybe… 300
T: They both go in the after–no, one goes all day but you mean after lunch to 301 go back…. 302
P: Right. They come home for lunch. That’s the only thing, you know. Uh, see like, uh – I 303 think it’s the end of January, they rotate and then he’ll go for the morning session and get out at 304 noon. 305
T: Oh. 306
P: See…. 307
T: Then it would be easier for you. 308
P: Yeah. Then all she’d have to do is like pick them up and take them for lunch and I’d be 309 back in time to get the daughter off to school. 310
T: You think she might do that for you? 311
P: Yeah. We’ve talked it out like, uh… 312
T: Have you already talked to her about it? 313
P: Oh, yeah. I said, “Ma, I need….” 314
T: When did you talk to her? What? 315
P: …any help you can give me, ” you know. I said, “I’m getting fed up with the situation.” 316 She knows what it’s like. She went through with me in first, second, third grade. (laughs) 317
T: How do you get on with your mother? 318
P: Uh, we have disagreements. She’s got funny ways but, uh, sometimes I don’t like her and 319 sometimes I like her but, uh, we could work it out, you know. 320
T: See, if you had an appointment at this time, then you could do it yourself, 321 huh? 322
P: Yeah. 323
T: But I can’t do that on Monday and I can’t do it on Tuesday. I can on 324 Wednesday but Thursday isn’t good – nor is Friday. This is just not a good 325 time for me but 11:00 in the morning, I could make it. 326
P: I’ll get somebody to work it out. Like on Wednesday, my sister is off all day and that 327 definitely could be worked out–Wednesdays 11:00 in the morning could definitely be worked out 328 and I’m sure my mother would try to help. 329
T: You see, the money is not a problem. Now the reason for that is that I do 330 research and what the research consists of is that I record the hours on 331 tape on that machine there- would that bother you? 332
P: No. We talked about that. I even called *Janey after *Kenny…. 333
T: Who is…. 334
P: Uh, *Janey. 335
T: You phoned her? 336
P: Yeah. (laughs) I called her right after I made the appointment with you–after *Kenny had 337 talked and then I had called you and, uh, it was mostly to ask her, you know, like financially, how 338 do you work out these things, you know…and she said, “Well, talk it over with him. Talk it out 339 with him. He’ll be understanding. “He’s great,” you know. That didn’t help any, you know. I said, 340 “Oh, boy.” (laughs) I says, “Well… 341
T: That scared you even more. 342
P: When I first heard it–yeah–but then after thinking about it, I thought–well, maybe it’s 343 better that way. He’s got experience. He can solve it, you know, or find out what it is, you know. I 344 don’t know. When it happens–sometime I’m too busy trying to control myself to think but I had 345 given myself the third degree and I said, “Okay. What is it?” and all I can do is “I don’t want to 346 go. I don’t want to go.” That’s all that’s coming out. 347
T: Yeah. Did you talk with her then about the research part of it–is that what 348 you meant? 349
P: No. *Kenny talked to me about the research part–that it would be taped and stuff like that. 350 I did mention that part of it to *Janey and I says, “Well, I know I can’t be that terrible a patient,” 351 you know. It’s probably just one problem somewhere bothering me and it’ll come out and 352 whatever it is, can’t be that terrible, you know. It just–I’ve read things about children and phobias 353 and stresses during their life–the whole thing– I’m forever reading–and, uh, I was reading this 354 one–and so many things happened in my childhood that I could apply to these things, I thought–355 holy Christmas, you know, like there was an abandonment, eh, people–children get very scared 356 of diseases and losing organs and, uh, I read one part of that. I had my tonsils taken out about that 357 time when everything was going through – uh, that so that could have been a big fear or 358 something. Uh, like I told *Kenny, I remember the few things when I was very young, uh, like I 359 had a great grandmother and I didn’t like her–to me, she reminded me of a witch and–’cause she 360 used to say–like if you look in the mirror long enough, you’ll see the devil or if you paint the 361 fingernails red, the devil’s coming out of you and all that–I didn’t like her. She scared me. That’s 362 what it amounted to. And, uh, I found out, uh–sometimes I think it’s gotta be involved somewhere 363 there, uh, I had a collie–a puppy–that was growing up by my grandmother’s house–they –my 364 mother and father were going back and forth in the service and staying at my grandmother’s house 365 and buying a home and this and that and, uh, there was quite a few hectic things going on. Uh, the 366 collie stayed at my grandmother’s house–it grew up and I remember sitting on the front porch and 367 it jumped over the fence, got hit be a car and was killed–hit and run. 368
T: And you saw that? 369
P: Yeah. I saw that. 370
T: How old were you? 371
P: Uh, I wrote it down. I asked my mother all these inform–I remember things and then I try 372 to put things together and, I had to be about five years old and my mother told me today, that was 373 the same day my grandmother died–my great grandmother and we had been going back and forth 374 to that house three times a day–I thought–oh, boy, and I remember a few things, you know. I 375 remember it getting killed and everything and-and I said–well, maybe it’s got–and I remember 376 going to the funeral and I didn’t want to go up there–so I’m trying to think–well, maybe it’s 377 something in that line, you know. 378
T: You’re twenty nine years old, are you? 379
P: Mmm hmm. But I can’t understand why it should bother me that much younger–then sort 380 of nothing–occasions of being nervous–then now… 381
T: Worse again. 382
P: Yeah. That-that-that I can’t understand. 383
T: Well, I don’t either but I think we probably could find out. If you want to 384 try, I’ll be glad to try. 385
P: Would you please ’cause I don’t know where to turn anymore. You know, talking to your 386 husband or your mother or *Kenny or *Janey, they haven’t got the time, they don’t really want to 387 get involved because they’re close to you. My husband, he couldn’t–I mean, he couldn’t really 388 help me, he-he just doesn’t understand things like that, you know. He puts up with them (laughs) 389 but he doesn’t understand because to him, you know, he’s normal (laughs). 390
T: Now as far s the money is concerned, you talk it over with him and see how 391 much you think you could afford. 392
P: Well, we were talking about that and I says, “Well, let’s see how many times he wants me 393 to come and like if it’s once,” I….was, you know–I don’t want to be cheap (laughs) you know, 394 that’s… 395
T: Listen, you’ve got a house and two kids and a husband making $209,000, 396 you can’t spend much money, I know. 397
P: No. 398
T: What figure did you have in mind? 399
P: Well, like when I go to a doctor, it’s only $10 but that’s like for fifteen minutes, you know. 400 This is gonna be an hour and then four times a week, you know….I would–really, we could–gee, 401 even if we could do it $10 a treatment or something–or less–an occurrence and if you’re going 402 five times a–or four times a week, that’s forty dollars a week–that’s like $160 a month already 403 right there. That’s-that’s a good chunk (laughs) 404
T: That’s more than you can afford. 405
P: That’s–we can afford that but anymore than that would seem to really start hurting. I 406 mean, we just–to afford that we would just not, uh, do some plans we have but–such as 407 remodeling the kitchen–that could wait, you know, and then if I got over this, you know, maybe-408
maybe I could even go out and get a job, you know, and help then, you know, and make up for 409 anything. 410
T: Mmm hmm. 411
P: Uh – I don’t know. Talking to *Janey once before and she was saying like $25 and I said, 412 “Oh….” you know, that was kinda-kinda high. 413
T: But you think you can swing $40 a week. 414
P: Yeah. If it’s like 4 times. 415
T: Yeah. Four times a week. 416
P: Is that-is that reasonable or is that too low? 417
T: It sounds all right to me. Naturally, I couldn’t do it if I were in practice. 418
P: I know (laughs) she told me that. She said, “You couldn’t touch him with a ten foot pole.” 419 (laughs) 420
T: But you know, if you went to another doctor, you wouldn’t have to put up 421 with the taping and all that kind of thing so you give me something and I’ll 422 give you something. Uh, and whatever we decide on for the money, it 423 doesn’t have to stay that way. If it turns out that that pinches you terribly so 424 you’re eating nothing but hot dogs everyday, we can drop it some or if it 425 turns out that your husband gets a raise or some money- 426
P: Yeah. That’ll work out real good. 427
T: …comes to you from someplace you hadn’t expected it from, we can raise it. 428 So you don’t have to feel, you know, that it’s fixed forever. 429
P: Yeah. 430
T: But–we can start out and $10 a time… 431
P: Oh, that’s really–I really thought–after hearing about you, I thought–oh, gee, that’s kinda 432 cheap, you know. 433
T: No. That’s not too cheap to me. As a matter of fact, it seems like it might be 434 too much and if it is, we’ll drop it. 435
P: Well, we can work it out, you know. 436
T: I’ll have to make some arrangements with the–well, there is the problem of 437 insurance, that could change, see, so we’ll have to… 438
P: Yeah. I’m gonna check that. I’ll check it this evening. 439
T: We’ll have to know about that and, uh, I’ll have to make arrangements with 440 the clinic— ’cause it would be with me that you’d be working. It might just 441 be that you’d stop at the desk downstairs on the way up. When would you 442 like to begin? 443
P: Well, as soon as possible–I could have put up with this until January ’cause nothing was 444 happening to upset me, you know, but- 445
T: You-you-you…. 446
P: …I know it’s gonna keep happening. It’s like, you know, like it only happens…. 447
T: You had hoped that you’d sort of be free now until Thanksgiving time, huh? 448
P: Yeah. (laughs) 449
T: Party planned for Thanksgiving, is that it? 450
P: Yeah. *Janey’s even flying in at one of the relatives but there are like–I’m sure *Ericka’s 451 gonna be having an assembly hall and then, uh, — ummmm–well…. 452
T: Uh huh. Well, it just happens that I have time–we can start next week if you 453 want to. 454
P: I really want to get this over with. I-I think this is the only–if this doesn’t work, then I’ll 455 just keep going through the rest of my life avoiding places or taking tranquilizers to get there or…, 456 you know… 457
T: Yes. No. I think something needs to be done. You’re absolutely right. 458
P: I just can’t put it off anymore. I, uh–I–oh, the day after the block club party, I was so 459 upset, I stayed in bed all day Sunday. I wouldn’t–I said, “I’m gonna lay here and die.” I really 460 was–I said, “I’ve had it, *Nick. I can’t go out there and be normal, I’m gonna lay here and die.” 461 And he said, “Well, we’ll help you, we’ll call *Kenny or something” and that was all he said. 462 Well, Monday morning it was already getting to me and I called him up on the phone and told 463 him–this was it, it was gonna get solved or I was gonna–(clicking sound with tongue) do away. I 464 was really-really…. 465
T: You were gonna what? Do away with yourself? 466
P: Yeah. I was really pretty upset. 467
T: You felt that bad. 468
P: That bad ’cause I said this–I can’t take it. It really wrecks you when it–when you go 469 through this, I mean… 470
T: Have you thought about doing away with yourself before? 471
P: Yeah. But that was just- 472
T: Just playing with the idea, huh? 473
P: …depressed. Yeah. 474
T: Yeah. 475
P: And–but I took off–I told him, “Come get the kids. Call my mother.” I hung up. I took off 476 in the car and I went to a park just to be alone and-and that’s what my mother says–she says, I’m 477 the type of person that lets things build up and build up and the only way–and then I take off for a 478 couple hours or a couple days and, uh, get myself calmed down and come back and, uh, I had 479 called–I had called *Kenny and I said, “I gotta see you. I just can’t….” Now I didn’t explain 480 anything to him–I don’t think he even knew this. He sensed a few times when we did go to parties 481 by his house that I was, you know, uneasy. 482
T: Did you socialize much with him and *Janey? 483
P: Well, twice–we went to two parties. Yeah. And we had *Kenny at our house once for a 484 party for the children’s birthdays ’cause they’re a day apart and, uh, he’s a very nice person. Very 485 nice. And he explained to me that’s it better off if I get someone I don’t know and (laughs) the 486 way he kept putting it–someone who wouldn’t abandoned me and… 487
T: Do you have any feelings about their relationship? 488
P: *Janey and *Kenny’s? Uh… 489
T: What did you make it out to be? 490
P: I was kinda sorry that they didn’t really hit it off. I really was. I thought *Kenny was a 491 mice person and I know *Janey’s kind of a lonely person and, uh, I’m just sorry that nothing could 492 be worked out for happiness, you know. 493
T: You thought they might get married? 494
P: Yeah. I really did. I thought something would work out nice but it didn’t. It just, uh–and 495 then *Kenny told me a few things about *Janey I don’t know if I should believe–things that I 496 don’t know if I should believe or not but, uh, she’s got her ways set, you know, to marry someone 497 who’s gotta be (laughs) qualifications–certain qualifications according to her, you know, but, uh, 498 *Kenny’s found someone else now, I understand. 499
T: Yes. I understand he’s going to be married. 500
P: Yeah. So I’m really happy–he sounds happy. I hope it works out. I think marriage is good. 501
T: Then-then Wednesday is a day you want–Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday 502 and Friday. That’s four times at 11:00 o’clock. 503
P: That often. (laughs) 504
T: You mean, did I really mean four times? 505
P: Yes. That’s hard–I watch this show on t.v.–one of these soap operas–and there’s a girl 506 going to see a psychiatrist now too and she went once a week and this last time she went, uh, the 507 doctor felt she broke a barrier and now he wanted to see her everyday and I said, “Oh, my God! 508 What if this man says, you know, he wants to see me everyday.” I never thought that was 509 possible, you know, and *Kenny had said three or four times a week. He did say that-that so…. 510
T: Well, I think ought to make it clear to you that I think you probably could 511 be helped once a week but, uh… 512
P: Yeah. But it would take longer, right? 513
T: I don’t know. I really don’t know. The point is that psychoanalysis is a 514 particular kind of treatment that I generally work with and that is four 515 times a week so that is what, uh… 516
P: I’m very willing–I mean, I’ll tell you all my failings and things I remember and maybe you 517 can come up with something. I mean… 518
T: Well, let me tell you a little about how it’s done then. I suppose–do you 519 know the patient lies down? 520
P: No. I-I’ve seen that in the movies but I never really…. 521
T: You thought (inaudible) (laughs) 522
P: That did just–can anyone really think lying down, I mean, don’t they get a little… 523
T: We’ll see what happens. I don’t think you’ll have much trouble with it. 524
P: I’ll practice at home thinking. (laughs) 525
T: You lie down there and I sit here and then the idea would be that you speak 526 as freely as you can and when I feel I have something to say then that might 527 clarify something, I’ll say it. 528
P: That, you know–*Kenny said a few things that made me think, you know. Uh…I don’t–I 529 don’t know how to help myself. I have to go to someone who can, you know–someone who… 530
T: And do you know that the session lasts fifty minutes? 531
P: Yeah. Fifty. I thought an hour–well, fifty–yeah. 532
T: It’s fifty. 533
P: I mean… 534
T: All right? 535
P: Okay. 536
T: I’ll expect you next Monday? 537
P: Eleven. 538
T: Eleven o’clock. 539
P: Yeah. Well, I will work out something definitely. 540
T: Yeah. 541
P: It’s just that–I, you know…. 542
T: If you find that there is some insurance coverage- 543
P: I’ll check tonight. 544
T: …phone me so we can talk about that because that would influence the kind 545 of arrangements I would make here but the treatment doesn’t depend on 546 that. You understand? 547
P: But it could help from the financial status. 548
T: Yeah. So if there is some insurance benefits, phone me and tell me what it is 549 and if not, forget it and I’ll just–I’ll see you Monday. 550
P: Okay. Just… 551
T: Yeah… 552
P: Relieved. 553
T: Not as bad as you thought, huh? 554
P: No-no. I got it over with. 555
T: Okay. Goodbye. 556
P: See you, doctor. 557
T: Bye bye. 558
559
June 16, 2019 Y:\PRC\Annie session 1 final.docx